Menlu Hassan Wirajuda: [] Pembukaan Regional Dialogue on Interfaith and Cooperation oleh Presiden Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, dan dalam sambutan beliau telah digarisbawahi bahwa ketika prejudice etnik dan agama diperburuk oleh situasi ekonomi dan politik, maka konflik memang tak terhindarkan. Karena itu kita menganggap penting dialog antar civilisasi dan kita tahu bahwa agama dan budaya merupakan core atau elemen pokok dari peradaban. Dan karena itulah interfaith dialogue ini diadakan, saya sudah menyebut asal muasal dari gagasan ini. Selain itu juga dilatarbelakangi keberhasilan upaya bersama Indonesia-Australia dalam menyelenggarakan berbagai konferensi regional di bidang penyelundupan manusia, money laundering terrorism, maka kali ini kita lihat peluang Indonesia dan Australia untuk sekali lagi mempromosikan dialog antar agama di kawasan. Dan karena itulah kita lihat kehadiran dari negara-negara anggota ASEAN, Australia, Timor Leste, New Zealand dan Papua New Guinea.

Dari tiap negara juga telah diundang 10 anggota delegasi. Dialog ini juga, bagi Indonesia, merupakan suatu upaya terus menerus untuk mendorong upaya memberdayakan kelompok moderat, baik dalam agama maupun dalam masyarakat. Pada bulan Februari, Deplu bekerjasama dengan organisasi terbesar Islam, NU, telah menyelenggarakan International Conference of Islamic Scholars, dan dengan begitu Indonesia ingin mendorong pemberdayaan kelompok moderat dalam Islam. Kali ini konferensi telah mengundang organisasi Muslim lainnya, yaitu Muhammadiyah, untuk menjadi mitra dalam penyelenggaraan dialog ini. Jadi kita juga menyaksikan bahwa dalam pertemuan ASEAN Summit dan juga dalam pertemuan para Menteri Luar Negeri anggota SwPD di Adelaide, Australia Selatan, terdapat sambutan yang baik atas penyelenggaraan dialog, bahkan ada harapan dialog seperti ini juga merupakan kegiatan yang berlanjut. Jadi Presiden juga menyebut kemungkinan untuk melembagakan proses ini. Nantinya kami akan pikirkan bagaimana pelembagaan proses seperti ini ke depan.

Juga Indonesia telah memastikan untuk melakukan, bersama dengan pemerintah Inggris, untuk menyelenggarakan dialog antar agama ini dalam kerangka ASEM yang akan dilaksanakan pada bulan Juni tahun depan dan melibatkan 38 negara anggota ASEM. Jadi kita ingin mendorong proses dialog ini bahkan tidak hanya kawasan atau antar kawasan tapi juga secara global. Terlebih lagi kita juga menyadari bahwa di dalam situasi global saat ini dengan mencuatnya isu terorisme dan upaya menanggulanginya maka hanya dengan kerjasama internasional melalui suatu global coalition yang melibatkan semua civilisasi dan semua agama maka kita akan mampu memenangkan perang terhadap terorisme. Kita telah melakukan banyak kerjasama bilateral di dunia internasional, dan tidak kalah penting kerjasama bilateral dengan Australia dalam konteks counter-terrorism. Tapi pada jangka menengah dan jangka panjang perang melawan terorisme akan tergantung pada apakah kita berhasil memberdayakan kelompok moderat.

Colleagues, I have said in bahasa Indonesia what basically has reflected in the joint-press-statement that we have prepared and distributed to you. I simply say in a few lines, that this is the first kind of regional interfaith dialogue we have hosted in cooperation with the Government of Australia and this dialogue interfaith dialogue is welcomed not only by the ASEAN Summit but also by the SwPD prior to this meeting which was held in Adelaide, Australia, two days ago.

And as President has said this morning in his inaugural address that we are thinking on how to institutionalize the process, and at ministerial level we have to yet [] certainly in cooperation with Australia with the thinking and translating this into actions in the future.

We see the importance of this interfaith dialogue because the success in our joint or collective efforts in combating terrorism in the medium and long term will depends on, to large extent, if we are able to successfully empowering the moderates, not only the moderates within one religion but also in all religions and societies. Of course there is a need then to also translate this dialogue at this level down to the grass roots and in practical level. This is a challenge, but I believe, as I met with quite a number of participants, they are very enthusiastic about this process. Again I believe that this will be a process that deserves support from communities at large, including the press, but also of all countries and all religions.

Thank You,
Alexander...

Menlu Alexander Downer: I just would like to add that from Australia's perspective we are delighted to co-host the dialogue, we see it as a very important first step towards building confidence and understanding between various faiths of our region which incorporate the major faiths of the whole world. I think we are setting an example not only to ourselves in the region but to the world, that it is possible to get representatives of all the major religions together and for them to sit down and to talk about common values that they share for all of those faiths and to transmit their positive values to the people to follow those different faiths in other region. And of course the war against terrorism and against violence and extremism was put in different ways that obviously in the past there have been military and police component, law and order component, change of legislative component, multilateral, bilateral, regional components, and these has been much talk about over the last few years, and I think we have made a great deal of progress as a region in addressing some of these issues. That's not to say that there aren't other substantial problems, because there are. But I think there is another component and that is to empower as much as we possibly can, moderate voices, including moderate voices of faith, moderate religious leaders, and this process I think is, in time, going to make a very strong contribution to that particular task.

This is only the beginning, and I appreciate the president very gracious speech in opening the dialogue. In fact that the president of Indonesia should come down from Jakarta specifically to do that, is enormously appreciated and it sends a very strong message about the weight that Indonesia, a country of over 200 million people, and fourth biggest country in the world, 88 percent of the population as Moslem, and the fact that the president of the country, democratically elected president, would come and give this interfaith dialogue the momentum that we stand as a very important and much more the president made it clear that he wants this to be a permanent process. So Hassan Wirajuda has said that we are going to have to sit down and think about how we actually do that. But I know too from talking to the Australian participants that they would like it to be an ongoing process and if it is just for one meeting it's going to have relatively limited impact compared to what we can achieve if we set up some kind of a permanent process. So we are going to have our head together and our officials put their heads together and work on how we are going to do that. But I think already that's a very good development.

And to cover something that Hassan has said that this is yet another example of Indonesia-Australia cooperation in addressing regional problem, I think we have made a great progress in addressing the problem of people smuggling and we can take a lot of credit, the two of our governments, for what we have done throughout our cooperation there, in particular more broadly in our own region by taking a lead on that issue. We've done the same with regional counter-terrorism through the counter-terrorism ministerial meeting that we hold in February and we subsequently seen working group emerge. But the process is going ahead well and now dealing this issue is another very positive development in Australia-Indonesia Cooperation.

Thank You.

Wartawan: Are you disappointed that the Malaysian delegates did not show up?

Menlu Hassan Wirajuda: From the very beginning in our consultations we were positive that Malaysia would send its delegations. Of course we will find out the problems they have, that eventually Malaysian delegation will not with us.

Wartawan: Does it surprise you?

Menlu Hassan Wirajuda: I learnt only this morning, just prior to the opening ceremony.

Wartawan: []

Menlu Hassan Wirajuda: Ya, sejak awal pemikirannya adalah bagaimana memberdayakan kelompok moderat. Karena sesungguhnya kita juga meyakini bahwa sekelompok radikal atau ekstrim terutama di Indonesia itu merupakan kelompok yang sangat kecil. Tapi karena suaranya vokal, nyaring, maka sepertinya mereka yang mewakili mainstream Indonesia. Dengan penyelenggaran konferensi yang dihadiri oleh kelompok-kelompok moderat termasuk dari Indonesia, maka kita ingin memperkuat suara moderasi tidak hanya kelompok-kelompok dari Islam tapi juga semua agama, karena dengan begitu kita ingin ada message yang kuat bahwa semua agama adalah mencintai perdamaian, mengajarkan perdamaian dan toleransi, dan bukan kekerasan apalagi terorisme.

Wartawan: Mr. Downer, could you comment on the view of some Moslem leaders including the moderate ones that western countries like US and Australia have played a role in radicalizing Moslem across the world by carried out aggression in Moslem countries like Iraq and Afghanistan? And what Australia is going to do to counter this view?

Menlu Alexander Downer: This is what we are doing and what we are doing is getting other people from different countries, from different faith, from different cultures together to talk about different perception they may have. Often in human affairs difficulties are caused by differences of perception and misunderstanding not necessarily by the reality, for example, what the US do to help the people of Bosnia, Albanian Kosovo who are Moslem people, and protect them, needs to be considered. Also the US, Australia, Indonesia, and most of the world support the road map for peace in the Middle East and we have now I think a great opportunity to take that process forward and I think if the road map in the end can be implemented we can get a satisfactory settlement in the Middle East and obviously it's gonna be a great step forward. And in the case of Afghanistan, the fact that the Moslem people in Afghanistan went to vote in a great numbers recently and elected their own president and have a completely empowered in their own country, that... is it ideal that they prefer the Taliban running the country through a repressive regime? I think a lot of this is just trying to talk through whether maybe differences of perceptions talk those things through. This is what I find the whole time, if we find people share the values, and nobody wants to see Christian or Moslem or Buddhist, or Hindus, or whatever persecuted. Actually no people want to see other people persecuted, they don't want to see the lack of compassion, they don't want to see cruelty. The question is how would you address, within that framework, the problems that the world has today? I am hoping that this dialogue is just the way of looking these issues from a different angle. Of course there is disagreement, you can't expect everybody,... you never will have everybody sharing one view, and I think the president made that point. I am not suggesting everyone should hold one view, I am not suggesting every body to be the same, I am not suggesting that there aren't differences between human being. It's not realistic. Pluralism is part of human existence, the question is how do we get understanding and tolerance, and cooperation. And this isn't everything, but this is making contribution to that.

Wartawan: Pak Hassan, apakah hasil dari pertemuan ini akan menjadi suatu resolusi yang akan ditransform menjadi policy pemerintah misalnya di dalam kurikulum, atau sekolah agama, seperti itu...?

Menlu Hassan Wirajuda: Tentunya kami dari pemerintah Indonesia dan Australia, dan saya kira pemerintah dan negara-negara peserta menunggu dengan harapan baik apa rekomendasi yang akan dihasilkan dari pertemuan ini. Sebagai input kebijakan, tentunya akan sangat berharga dan sangat dihargai. Sebab kita juga ingin agar dialog ini tidak hanya terjadi pada tataran para pemimpin agama, tapi juga pada waktunya untuk diterjemahkan dalam langkah-langkah praktis. Karena itu judulnya adalah Interfaith Dialogue and Cooperation.

Wartawan: [] that indicate deepening sentiment toward a significant [] as some in Australia see it to be a deepening sentiment against the US and Australia. My question, is it not reasonable to suggest that Australian foreign policy and the US foreign policy particularly in Iraq speak far more loudly to extremists and to people generally in this country then this sort of getting together?

Menlu Alexander Downer: Well, may be your view. I don't think that in that in the end that's a view I share. I have seen some references in a newspaper, I think, in The Australian today, there is an article about it, to the survey, I don't see a survey though. I am not sure how much weight put on it, its an American survey, as I understand it. I don't know how many people they surveyed, I don't know what part of Indonesia they surveyed, I am going to be very cautious with this thing, I can tell you. An opinion polls can be very misleading. On the other hand, this is what the dialogue is all about. Of course there are differences in view, there are differences of perception, there are different policies, there are different arguments. The argument about Iraq, there is an argument for some that it would have been better to leave Saddam Hussein in power. It's not a view shared by most of the Iraqis, but it's a view that some would have. There is another view that it's better to get rid of him. The civilized people can have civilized discussion about these things. We can disagree without being disagreeable. I think all of differences whatever they may be, I suspect the heart of these things has nothing to do with Iraq, but all of these differences, may be between faith, and culture, they need to be talk through. The president is completely right we can't slam your fist down and demand everybody has the same outlook, policy or approach, or the same faith. We can't do that. It will never work. You have to bring people together and help them to develop some understandings of different perspectives. The more people talk about these things, the more they develop an understanding. Not just be driven by the hysteria of headlines that is designed to sell advertising in newspapers and so on. But the more people get together and talk about differences and we'll have a successful regional pluralistic society. And that's one of the thing out of many things we need to aim for.

Wartawan: You've been talking about the people in the other region, lets look to Indonesia, surely to the rest of people in Indonesia, a function like this in a hotel certainly does not have much impact...

Menlu Alexander Downer: Well, that's an argument for doing nothing, I suppose, or for changing your own culture, changing your alliance, changing your policy,... [] I think what we are trying to do here is []. One of the thing that we need to do is to get the religious leaders of the world together and to develop an understanding and a dialogue among those people. I think that in itself is going to be a very useful contribution in dealing with some of the problem we have in the region, and that does include differences of perspectives. There are a lot of other thing you can do as well, and this argument that somehow everybody should agree with everybody, that there should be one single policy that will always be pursue by everyone. Even if you though that is possible, I can give you a firm guarantee that is not what's going to happen. Different countries have different perspective, they have a different world view, different history, different culture, they are all sort of things that drive different policies. An important thing, they talk to each other about that in different way, and this is a way of doing it out of many ways. But I don't think that the fact this take place in a hotel in Yogyakarta means that it is better it didn't happen.

Wartawan: []

Menlu Alexander Downer: Well we have a very constructive discussion about regional and bilateral relations, and of course the interfaith dialogue, and I think he knows from the Prime Minister, there were reports of the Prime Minister's meeting with the president, they have met twice or three time actually in recent times, in the inauguration in APEC meeting in Santiago, and in ASEAN Summit in Vientiane. We have a very constructive and closed relationship with President Yudhoyono, and I have worked with him in his capacity as the Coordinating Minister for Politic and Security, and he's become a good friend of ours. In fact President Yudhoyono shared a birth date, something we know. Unfortunately it is in the month of September, which was the day of the Jakarta's Embassy bombing. And we had talked about a full range of issues, I am not going into the details of the conversation. But I can report to you there is an extremely positive and constructive discussion.

Wartawan: Pak Hassan, The PM of Malaysia at the weekend said that Australia's refusal to sign on the TAC could damage Australia's relations with South East Asia. Do you agree and do you really would like Mr. Downer to sign the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation?

Menlu Hassan Wirajuda: To Indonesia that conclusion is a bit too early. We had had the experience in dealing with Japan, South Korea, and initially we too had difficulties. And we encouraged them to accede to the treaty (TAC), this question was raised in the ASEAN Summit but in Indonesia's view we should let in this case Australia and New Zealand to the issue. It may take sometime, but like in the case of the country I mentioned. But of course we are hopeful that one day in the near future Australia would respond positively.

Wartawan: []

Menlu Hassan Wirajuda: On Myanmar we have discussed bilaterally in our meeting with Mr. Downer. But on the issue discussed at this interfaith dialogue, not to mention lots problem and the situation we are facing today. Terrorism is only one but of course important one, but also important question of development. And indeed with the very theme of this meeting, interfaith dialogue and cooperation, so then more then just a question of terrorism, but also development. We need to translate efforts to strengthen the moderates not only at the leader's level but also the grass roots and at practical level of cooperation So 9 the conclusion and the recommendations of this conference as important input to us.

Menlu Alexander Downer: Well one of the [] was saying that we don't want to focus on terrorism. Terrorism is obviously a vast issue that confront and affect us all. But there is also a communal violence in different part of the region, not just terrorism, and perhaps in the sense we understand terrorism, in the context of the Bali bombing, the Marriots and the Australian Embassy bombing, but there's of course inter-communal conflict, not only in Indonesia but also in the other part of the region. The real issue I think is perception and understanding. Frankly personally I think it is obviously important It's easy to say but hard to do that those perception and understanding between religion be developed. So this is not just a question of dealing with terrorism, though partly it's a question that is dealing with terrorism, that's why in the President's speech and our speeches reflected that.

Wartawan: [] they end up with a statement that he describes as nothing more but platitude. I just wonder how would you decide whether this event has been a success, what will need to come out of it to warrant having another one?

Menlu Alexander Downer: I don't think we'll look so much for a statement as a in a piece of paper coming out of this first ever regional interfaith dialogue, because I think the [] statement that would come out of it is... I have had this discussion with the Australian delegates [] easy to produce a statement which is platitude achievement to the point of being banal. And that will make people cynical and so whether it wouldn't be easy to achieve. And I would have though what would come out of it is the beginning of a process, I think that what's going to be very important. And this whole notion of establishing some sort of a permanent dialogue between the great faiths of the region has the potential to be extremely powerful and I think those people, well they'll come out with ideas that we, the o of us, may or may not agree with. They are bond to come out with ideas from time to time that we don't agree with. But I think they have the potential to exercise a good deal of influence, influence on government but more importantly influence on followers and flocks. And these people who follow these religious leaders I think could be significantly influence in time, not this week, but in time, by the experiences that those leaders have in interacting with each other in a forum like this. So I don't look at it in term of having some kind of a spectacular announcement at the end of it, but surely that's not going to happen. I look at it in term of setting in place of a process which is going to have a long term impact on the way different communities approach each other and think about each other. Not trying to get them all to agree with each other, we are not trying to get all people [] to agree with each other, but just to understand where each other is coming from.

Menlu Hassan Wirajuda: The fact that we live in the same neighborhood should not make us take for granted that we understand each other better. And this interfaith dialogue is precisely meant to create an understanding among people in this region. And as religion is important component of civilization, indeed through this process we have also created not only better understanding but in the end also of course the totality peace and [] in this region. I see this meeting as a process and now we would like to see the outcome, but don't undermine the importance of the process itself and as I said it is not a one time... having an agreement but this process will be institutionalized in the future.

Thank you very much

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Yogyakarta, 6 December 2004