Ambassador Imron Cotan:

Honorable Senator Ellison,
        Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is indeed a distinct honor for me to welcome you, Senator Ellison, and our colleagues from the Australian Attorney General's Department, the Australian Federal Police, the Directorate of Public Prosecutions, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and the Insolvency and Trustee Service Australia as well as the media representatives at today's cheque presentation ceremony of the recovered proceeds of the money laundering crimes committed by the late Mr. Hendra Rahardja.

This ceremony is the result of a lengthy, diligent and consistent efforts by the Joint Task Force of Australia and Indonesia, and is yet another crystal-clear indication of a very close and productive cooperation by the authorities of our two countries in our commitment to combat trans-national crime, especially money laundering. For this achievement, allow me to extend my gratitude and deepest appreciation to the government of Australia and personally to you, Senator, and to all individuals involved in this joint effort.

I am also proud to advise you that this is the first ever concrete achievement of a bilateral treaty on mutual assistance in criminal matters which Indonesia has had with a number of countries. We believe that this achievement is just the beginning of our long journey in combating trans-national crime bilaterally. It should also set an exemplary example for the countries in the region, for a combination of money laundering and terrorism would be lethal to our common security.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Indonesia and Australia signed the Treaty on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters in October 1995 and it entered into force in July 1999. Furthermore, the two countries also signed the Extradition Treaty in April 1992 which came into force in January 1995. With regard to the Rahardja's case, I can assure you that it was one of the contributing factors to Indonesia's prolonged economic and financial crisis. It is therefore encouraging to witness that - for the first time - our governments have had the opportunity to implement the two treaties, I have previously alluded to, in solving the case.

It is understandable, however, that the monies recovered today is not significantly comparable to the amount stolen by the late Mr. Rahardja from the government and the people of Indonesia which amounted to approximately A$ one billion. Nevertheless, we see this as an encouraging development to move forward and to inform other money launderers that they now have a smaller playground to play with. And, it is only fitting for me to call on all Rahardja's family members and associates to come clean and surrender themselves to account for their heinous crimes. I can assure you that the Indonesian government will relentlessly pursue the case until after such an objective has been achieved.

To sum up, Senator, I feel confident that the Indonesian authorities with the full support from their Australian counterparts will attain more success in their efforts to locate and recover Rahardja's assets. I also believe that this success story will further enhance the already strong and close relations between Australia and Indonesia. Thank you.

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Minister Chris Ellison:

Your Excellency, Imron Cotan, Ambassador for Indonesia,
        Mr Rob Cornall, Secretary of the Attorney General's Department,
        Ladies and Gentlemen,

Today is a great day for relations between Australia and Indonesia. Today we will be handing over to the Indonesian Government $642,000 from the proceeds of crime which has been recovered as a result of the corrupt activities of Mr Rahardja, as the Ambassador mentioned. The $642,000 - I think it equates to round about 3.5 to 4 billion Rupiah, in Indonesian currency - and I believe that this a symbolic day because it sends a very clear message that Australia will not be a haven for money launderers and it also sends a very clear message that Australia and Indonesia are working together in relation to combating trans-national crime, money-laundering, and of course this extends into the fight against terrorism. This has been a long-standing issue, as you know, Your Excellency, you have been involved with his matter over a period of time and of course Indonesia sought the extradition of Mr Rahardja and he contested the sentence and before that could be resolved he passed away and after his death I met with the Indonesian Justice Minister Yusril Mahendra and we set up in June last year a task force to recover the proceeds of crimes as a result of the corrupt activities of Hendra Rahardja. And now of course there is much work to be done in relation to, we believe we have recovered the funds that are in Australia but our task force continues to work to recover moneys which may be overseas and we are working with overseas law enforcement with of course the Indonesian authorities in this regard. We remain determined to recover as much as we can in relation to the proceeds of crime from Hendra Rahardja's corrupt activities. We realise just how important this is to Indonesia. It is a symbolic day. Of course it is a day which has come about as a result of a lot of work by officials on both sides. I want to acknowledge today Maggie Jackson. Of course, Your Excellency, you mentioned Maggie's great work and also of the Australian Federal Police, the Director of Public Prosecutions, our Insolvency Authority and of course Foreign Affairs in working in a 'whole of government approach' to bring about today. This is the first such forfeiture that we have had in relation to the proceeds from crime from Indonesia and the first of its sort in relation to Indonesia under the civil forfeitures scheme that we introduced last year. We believe that our proceeds of crime legislation of course now signals a new era in the forfeiture of proceeds of crime. Of course if we get to the money, we get to the Mr Big's. That's why it is so important. We have a long-standing relationship, Your Excellency, with law enforcement in Indonesia and Australia, and we look forward to a strong future together in the fight against trans-national crime. We thank the Indonesian Government for its cooperation in relation to this matter, and also in other matters in which we have had great cooperation. I don't need to remind you all of the great investigation that was carried out, the joint investigation, into the Bali bombings; well here today we see another aspect of the strong relationship that we enjoy with Indonesia. ….. I have a cheque here. I can now hand it over to you, Your Excellency.

Ambassador Imron Cotan: Thank you very much for this cheque…

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QUESTIONS FROM THE MEDIA

Journalist: From where was the $642,000 actually got from?

Minister Chris Ellison: This was as a result of forfeiture action in New South Wales and Western Australia, in relation to accounts which were in those two States. I don't have the detailed information about the banks, but the forfeiture actions were in New South Wales and Western Australia. They were court orders.

Journalist: Was this in property or in bank accounts?

Minister Chris Ellison: I understand this was in accounts.

Journalist: ..What further amounts do you think might be recoverable?

Minister Chris Ellison: Well I don't want to signal our shots in that regard but we do believe that there are assets overseas and we are working with the Indonesian authorities in that regard. As I said we have a Joint Task Force set up in June last year but certainly we will be continuing the investigations in relation to further assets which can be recovered. We do believe, however, that we have recovered everything that can be got out of Australia.

Journalist: The Rand Report has looked in ASIO and has said that the AFP has some concerns that ASIO was withholding intelligence information on the terror that was going on. Were you aware of those concerns within the AFP and are you going to enquire further into what is behind it?

Minister Chris Ellison: Well can I say that ASIO and the Australian Federal Police work very closely together, and its from the top downwards, the relationship between Denis Richardson and Mick Keelty is a very close one and I have been Minister for Justice for over three years and I've seen a very close cooperation between ASIO and the Australian Federal Police. I have witnessed that first hand. In relation to the investigation of the Bali bombings. We have seen it in relation to joint operations which have been carried out. The arrest of Mr Roach and ?Mr Owen Parker recently and also other operations. I believe that we have two extremely good agencies in ASIO and the Australian Federal Police and they work very well together. They have of course different functions and roles and to reconcile of course the role of an intelligence officer with that of a policeman but of course we've also expanded the role of ASIO in relation to its cooperation with law enforcement and you can see that with the new Australian Crime Commission. ASIO is now on the board of the Australian Crime Commission which demonstrates the increased cooperation between ASIO and law enforcement in this country in relation to matters which may overlap between matters of security and organised crime. So I reject any allegation that the relationship between these two agencies is not either functional or good, it is in extremely good repoire and that is from the top downwards. I am certain both agencies are serving Australia very well.

Journalist: To the Minister and the Ambassador. There was a suggestion in the Report that the Bali bombers could have been prevented if certain intelligence assessments were actually taken more notice of. What do you say to that? Does that worry you?

Minister Chris Ellison: There are a couple of government enquiries in relation to that and I note that in one inquiry they said that even in hindsight the information that ASIO had was non-specific and that everything that could be done was done and I believe that the travel advisories of the time were appropriate, the action was appropriate, and of course the follow up to the Bali bombings is well known to all Australians. It was an investigation that was carried out with cooperation, a joint investigation with the Indonesian authorities, and I think it is now regarded internationally as world's best practice.

Ambassador Imron Cotan: If I may add to the points raised by the Minister that we did not have any specific threat relating to the Bali bombing. Of course, our intelligence has indicated previously that we had a threat from terrorist organizations but the information was not as specific as to pinpoint Bali was one of the targets.

Journalist:…… Do you share the concerns that ……intelligence in the AFP?

Minister Chris Ellison: As I understand the Rand Corporation Report they are relying on a former AFP officer who has remained anonymous. They are not relying on any official information from the Australian Federal Police and certainly that is something which has never been put to me as Minister. In fact can I say that the Australian Federal Police and ASIO have worked very closely in relation to matters of national security, in particular the Bali bombing, and the record speaks for itself.

Journalist: ……??…….

Minister Chris Ellison: I am not aware of any protest from Hong Kong.

Journalist:… surrender these individuals….

Minister Chris Ellison: …. Nationality was not a ground of refusal in relation to these two men. Australia does not use nationality as a ground for refusal of its nationals and re-surrendered nationals in other cases. In this case the question of nationality was not an issue.

Journalist: Are you aware that both men are back working in the same industry in which they are wanted for corruption charges in Hong Kong?

Minister Chris Ellison: I don't know them and what they are doing in Australia is a matter for them. My only interest is in relation to law enforcement matters and there is certainly nothing that has been brought to my attention if it was.

Journalist: Does it disturb you that they are working in the same industry as..?

Minister Chris Ellison: That is a matter for the industry.

Journalist: Ambassador, could I ask you has Indonesia recovered any other of the moneys identified as the $1 million corruptly obtained by Rahadja? Is there a sense of growing frustration in Indonesia that so little has been recovered?

Ambassador Imron Cotan: Again as I pinpointed in my speech that although the proceed that we have been able to recover is indeed significantly incomparable to what he stole from the Indonesian Government and its people but we are very happy that this is indeed a first step to what our other success stories in the future. I don't want to go into details as what we are going to do with the Australian Government. Perhaps that would prejudge or that would give the kind of information to Hendra Rahardja's family members and associates and that they would take commensurate actions to review what we are going to do in the future. So, I don't want to go into details in this regard because that would give [information to] our enemy to speak our efforts.

Journalist: Where does the money come from in the first place?

Ambassador Imron Cotan: Well, Hendra Rahardja stole the money from the Indonesian Government and its people when one of his banks sustained an enormous loss when we encountered what we call the financial crisis back in 1997, and they received loans from central bank and instead of replenishing the bank that he owned, he channelled those emergency loans outside of Indonesia, including to Australia.

Journalist: Do you have any indication of where the money might be? Is it in bank accounts or is it in property?

Ambassador Imron Cotan: Again, I do not want to go into details as far as this receipt of illegal government wealth of Hendra Rahardja because that would give them extra measures to counter our efforts to ..the Australian Government. But certainly we know whereabouts it is held.

Journalist: The Rwanda Government is talking about sending a message to Australia which may indicate the presence here of some war criminals from the genocide of 1994. Have you heard from the Rwanda Government about that?

Minister Chris Ellison: I am not aware of that. Australia has a strong record about prosecuting war criminals. Any information we receive is investigated by the Australian Federal Police. The record shows that Australia is engaged with the United Nations in assisting in setting up tribunals, Rwanda is one of those, of course Cambodia is another. We stand ready to investigate any complaint or evidence that is referred to us in relation to war criminals and their presence or activity in Australia or otherwise.

Journalist: Ambassador, (regarding your comment) that 95 percent of applicants for Indonesian foreign ministry jobs have anti-Australian sentiments. Why is this so?

Ambassador Imron Cotan: This is a very pertinent question and thank you very much for raising this very important question, but actually of course it has to do with the East Timorese hiccup. You know when Indonesia and Australia encountered problems. But the problem is Indonesia and Australia I think have what we call a cultural divide. You are basically a western democracy society while Indonesia is kind of different fabric of society, so misapprehension, misunderstanding, I think it is quite understandable to exist. The problem is for us, for Indonesia and Australia to work out, overcome, this misunderstanding, and this misapprehension. And I have encountered similar sentiments in Australia so it is indeed encumberant upon us to overcome this in the future. Otherwise, Indonesia and Australia are neighbours, we are bound to be together, we have to work hard to stabilize the region otherwise I don't think that we will be able to create the stability in the region, if Indonesia, and Australia, are not able to cooperate, one to another. Again, these aspirants are so young and unchatted, but let me assure you that the level of cooperation between governments, Indonesia and Australia, is excellent. Last year, I received more or less 750 officials, ranking from Ministers to lower ranking officials, from various parts of Indonesia. So that would give you an indication that G-to-G level of cooperation is absolutely excellent.

Canberra, 20 April 2004