TRANSKRIP WAWANCARA
KUASA USAHA AD INTERIM KBRI CANBERRA, IMRON COTAN
DENGAN PRIME TV CHANNEL 7
PROGRAM SUNDAY SUNRISE
TANGGAL 10 NOVEMBER 2002
Interview: Imron Cotan
Relations between Australia and Indonesia have been under considerable strain. This week, Jakarta again voiced its displeasure with our travel warnings and the ASIO raids on homes. Presenter Chris Bath and chief political correspondent Glenn Milne interview the acting Indonesian Ambassador Imron Cotan about the investigations and Australia-Indonesia relations.Chris Bath, Presenter: In relation to the Bali bombings, what more do we now know about the suspect Amrozi?
Imron Cotan, Acting Indonesian Ambassador to Australia: Well, what we know from him is what you know from the media. I haven't got any formal information from Jakarta as to ascertain his status.
Chris Bath: What information has he revealed to Indonesian police? They did say through the media that he had made several revelations to them.
Imron Cotan: Indeed, he made several revelations that he planted the bomb and he owned the mini-van that he bought previously.
Chris Bath: Have they been able to establish whether or not he was a member of JI?
Imron Cotan: We are now trying very hard to establish any links with JI.
Glenn Milne, Chief Political Correspondent: Are charges about to be laid, Ambassador, and what will those charges be?
Imron Cotan: Well, as you know, Indonesia has recently issued an anti-terrorism law and we will use this law to charge him.
Glenn Milne: So the charges will relate directly to the Bali bombing?
Imron Cotan: I believe so, yes.
Glenn Milne: Under the existing anti-terrorism laws?
Imron Cotan: Indeed.
Glenn Milne: There has also been some reporting in both the Indonesian and Australian press about the regular level of contact between Amrozi and Abu Bakar Bashir. Do you have any additional information on that level of contact?
Imron Cotan: For the time being, I cannot confirm nor deny. We are still waiting instructions from Jakarta. As soon as I receive the instructions, I will reveal it to you.
Glenn Milne: Of course, Abu Bakar Bashir is only being questioned in relation to other matters. Do you think it's now imminent that he will be questioned in relation to the Bali bombing?
Imron Cotan: Well, judging from what Amrozi has said in the media, we certainly would like to question Bashir on whether or not he has prior knowledge on Bali bombing.
Glenn Milne: Is he regarded as a suspect, though, now?
Imron Cotan: For the time being, not in the Bali bombing, no.
Chris Bath: There have also been claims in the Indonesian media that his citizenship may, in fact, be revoked. Is there any truth to those reports?
Imron Cotan: Well, to the best of my knowledge, he run away from the country when Suharto was still in power. So there is a regulation, or law, in Indonesia defining the status of a particular individual if he has been away for several years, his status can be questioned.
Chris Bath: So how likely is that that Bashir's citizenship would be revoked?
Imron Cotan: We are now still studying the matter seriously because, after all, he is an Indonesian. We cannot easily revoke his status.
Chris Bath: If it were to be revoked, would that allow his extradition to another country to be made more easily?
Imron Cotan: We will certainly consider it when the question comes.
Glenn Milne: Why is it, Ambassador, that Abu Bakar Bashir is being only questioned in relation to these other matters and not in relation to the Bali bombings?
Imron Cotan: For the time being, we haven't got any credible information that he is linked to the bombing. Certainly, he is not questioned - he is in custody.
Glenn Milne: Also, do you subscribe to the view that we could be facing a backlash in Indonesia as a result of any arrest of Abu Bakar Bashir?
Imron Cotan: We are prepared to face anything arising from this - from the government's action.
Glenn Milne: You returned from Jakarta this week to Canberra saying that the Bali bombing joint investigation could be jeopardised by the ASIO raids in Australia last week. Foreign Minister Alexander Downer says that's not the case. Can you clarify that for us?
Imron Cotan: Well, if you could kindly again consult the statement that I've made on a number of occasions, I said clearly that I will not be surprised if the Indonesian people will ask us to stop cooperating with you if you continue intimidating, harassing and targeting Indonesians residing in your country. That is my clear statement.
Glenn Milne: So what is the state of the level of cooperation at the present time?
Imron Cotan: Excellent.
Glenn Milne: Do you still believe, on the basis of last week's raids, that a continuation of those raids would constitute intimidation and targeting of Indonesians in Australia?
Imron Cotan: Well, again, that is a hypothetical question. We will see whether or not the ASIO, as well as your police force, will continue to do so, then we will react accordingly.
Glenn Milne: You've also said that you have information, I think from the head of ASIO, that there are no JI cells in Australia. Attorney-General Daryl Williams has contradicted you on that as well. What is the position?
Imron Cotan: Well, again, developments can also, you know - since Bali bombing, the developments continue on a minute-to-minute basis, so I can understand if they then found that there are sleepers in Australia.
Chris Bath: Just harking back to the raids, Mr Ambassador - President Megawati has asked for advance notice of any further ASIO raids on Indonesian citizens. Is that still the case?
Imron Cotan: Indeed. Under the international law, Vienna Convention 1963, raids against particular citizens of any given country, there is an obligation by those states conducting those operations to inform the embassy or representative's office of that particular country that they are conducting operations targeting its citizens.
Chris Bath: Given the level of disquiet over the ASIO raids, how would you describe relations between Australia and Indonesia at the present time?
Imron Cotan: Well, the relations between Indonesia and your country are wide-ranging. This isolated incident related to ASIO as well as police raids against Indonesians is an isolated incident, so you should not blow it up out of proportion.
Chris Bath: You would say we still have quite a good relationship?
Imron Cotan: Indeed. Excellent.
Glenn Milne: What about the comments by Labor frontbencher Craig Emerson this week who suggested that John Howard was perceived as anti-Asian. Do you think that is the view in the region?
Imron Cotan: Well, I cannot speak on behalf of the region, but certainly we are watching very closely the movement of your government. But for the time being, we consider that your government is indeed friendly to the region.
Glenn Milne: On that point - you are the acting Ambassador - when will Australia receive a new ambassador from Jakarta and does that say something about the state of relations?
Imron Cotan: Well, I'm about to reveal a secret here, but certainly you will receive a new ambassador in a few months.
Glenn Milne: Can you tell us who that will be and what position he or she currently holds in Indonesia?
Imron Cotan: I'd love to inform you about his identity, but the law in Indonesia prevents me from doing so.
Glenn Milne: The Indonesian press has been very critical of John Howard and very critical of Australia. Some people have said those views are officially sanctioned. Are they, and would it be helpful if that stopped?
Imron Cotan: I believe, again, when I reported back to my minister a few days ago in Jakarta, he insisted that Australia and Indonesia should not - and I repeat should not - engage in megaphone diplomacy. Instead, we should go through formal channels. You have your own embassy in Jakarta and we have our own embassy in Canberra. I think those two offices are more than appropriate to be used to exchange views.
Glenn Milne: So the press views are not officially sanctioned?
Imron Cotan: Indeed.
Chris Bath: Ambassador, just to get out of the region to finish up now - overnight, the US Security Council has passed a resolution on Iraq giving Iraq seven days to accept tough new conditions on weapons inspectors. Does Indonesia accept that resolution?
Imron Cotan: Well, we are not in a position to accept or not to accept this resolution. Once it is passed by the UN Security Council, we will act accordingly because it is obliged upon all states - members of the UN - to follow the UN Security Council resolutions.
Chris Bath: So Indonesia supports it?
Imron Cotan: We will.
Chris Bath: Ambassador, thank you very much for your time this morning.
Imron Cotan: Thank you for having me.
Embassy of the Republic of Indonesia, Canberra - Australia
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