Interview with Matthew Frost
Federal Correspondent
SBS TV News
Tuesday, 10 September 1996
Indonesian Embassy, Canberra

1. What is the current state of relations between Australia and Indonesia?

The relations between the two countries are continually improving and politically, the two sides are understanding each other better whilst the ballast of the relationship is becoming stronger, which can be seen in terms of the growing level of trade and economic co-operation, both bilaterally and regionally. The increasing investment both countries are making in the other's economy and markets is also contributing to the fuller ballast. The balance of such trade however, still lies in Australia's favour. Last year Indonesia's deficit was over $1 billion and while trade does not necessarily have to be balanced, it would be healthier if Indonesia's deficit could be reduced. Culturally, the relationship is expanding and we are witnessing greater exchanges of tourists between Australia and Indonesia. In education, the number of Indonesian students coming here to study is rapidly increasing and significantly, Australia and its educational institutions have now become the first choice for Indonesians who want to send their children to Australia. So I have to say that I feel the relationship is indeed strong.

Naturally, our relations are not without problems. Such problems of course arise between the two countries due to our many differences. Historical experiences set us apart, as do our cultures, political system, social structure and so on. Yet it is these differences that provide us with exactly the right challenges and opportunities to develop a synergistic and mutually fruitful partnership. The fact that Australia is a developed nation whilst Indonesia is still developing supplies us with many areas for complementarity and co-operation.

How has the change in government affected that relationship?

We understand the well-established Australian democratic system and changes in government under such a system are to be expected, but Australia's foreign policy has traditionally been very bi-partisan and in the final analysis, what we see is that the fundamentals of the relationship between Australia and Indonesia are very well in place. Indonesia, in the last 30 years has been developing remarkably quickly and as we develop, we are able to interact more in all areas of the relationship. We are currently the biggest economy in ASEAN with a GDP of $210 billion and there are even predictions that by the year 2010, Indonesia will be the fifth largest economy in the world. With regards to trade, we already have steady interaction with Australia, yet Indonesia is aware that to facilitate further interaction we need to improve our human resources as well as the availability of high quality tertiary institutions. We are therefore, comfortable even with the change in government.

Has the change in government changed Indonesia's views on the relationship?

I don't think we have changed our views on the relationship because basically, as I said, foreign policy in Australia is bi-partisan. We realise that there will naturally be changes in style and personalties as well as priorities, but the fundamentals affecting the relationship are very much in place.

How important is this visit to your government and why?

Australia is one of our closest neighbours, with whom we have had historical links since the very birth of Indonesia. Bilaterally we interact in many respects, such as trade, investment, tourism and education and regionally in economic co-operation, as well as in sharing the responsibility of maintaining peace and stability in the region. It is important that the new leader of Australia and the President of Indonesia have an opportunity to review all these aspects at this early stage, in order to look ahead to the future growth map. With regards to the relationship, whilst it is strong and sufficiently mature, it is also my belief that it requires continual and careful nurturing.

2. What are the issues of most import in the bilateral relationship?

As I said, the relationship needs continual and careful nurturing. We need to promote better understanding because as former Prime Minister Paul Keating has said (I quote), "...Australians fail to understand Indonesia in all its complexity". This may sound like a bit of an exaggeration but I feel there is some degree of truth in it. Whilst achieving this understanding is not easy, in the long-term there is no choice, we need to promote cross-cultural dialogue. However, there are a number of areas where the relationship is healthy. Firstly, the growing trade between the two nations has been and remains very important to the relationship. However, Indonesia is running a deficit and therefore we need to have better access to Australia's markets, aside from diversifying our export items and improving the quality of these items. We are very happy with Australia's investment in Indonesia. In 1995 alone, Australia invested $3.7 billion in 38 projects, making it Indonesia's ninth biggest investor. However, this year there has been a decline in Australia's investment but we are optimistic that the two countries can continue to beneficially interact in this area. Indonesia continues to open up and encourage foreign investment by such methods as reintroducing the tax holiday for companies investing in East Indonesia as this is an area where we want to accelerate the development process. Within the framework of APEC the two countries have been working together closely and I believe we will continue to do so. With the ratification of the Agreement on Security by Australia and Indonesia, we will see further co-operation intensification in the area of regional security. In the field of education, the figures indicate the number of Indonesian students studying in Australia continues to rise. One idea that could even further facilitate Indonesian students to study in Australia would be the development of a transfer system of academic credits. If one or more universities in Indonesia and Australia agree to implement this idea, then Indonesian students need not take up all the courses required in Australian universities. This would lead to a reduction in tuition fees and length of study time.

Which ones are likely to be discussed and in what context?

I cannot say for certain which ones are likely to be discussed first, but there will no doubt be a discussion on the overall relationship between the two countries, and both sides will I suppose explain their respective future course of policies as well as ways of strengthening both bilateral and regional co-operation.

3. Are there any problem areas in the relationship?

Naturally, our relationship is not without problems. Human rights concern in Australia regarding East Timor and other parts of Indonesia is of course one of them. Environmental issues as well as democratisation also seem to be causing some circles in Australia to be critical. I don't think Indonesia minds expressions of concern about these issues, but what we do mind is the way the expression is stated. We do not appreciate people who, when addressing these issues, place themselves on higher pedestals and pontificate and lecture.

What needs to be done to solve these or remove them from the agenda?

I don't think these problems can be removed. Expressions of concern and even outrage come from different sectors within Australian society, and of course it is impossible to prevent them from being expressed. Indonesians too can express concern over what happened in Australia in the field of human rights. However, it is not in our culture to point a finger at others, for in Indonesia we believe that when we point a finger at people, three of our fingers point at ourselves. So in Indonesia we place more stress on humility rather than arrogance, besides there are no saints in the struggle for human rights. Such is the cultural gap. There are more criticisms of Indonesia in Australia, whilst basically there is not much interest in Indonesia over what is going on in Australia.

4. How does Indonesia see Australia's future role in the region in Political/Diplomatic, Trade, and Strategic Terms?

Australia, for a rather long time, felt it was linked to and a part of Europe, in particular the United Kingdom until the British declared itself out of the east of Suez. During the Cold War Australia's ties became closer with the United States, as reflected in its heavy involvement in the Vietnam and Korean Wars. But with the Cold War now over and the Americans abandoning Subic Bay and the Clarke Airforce Base in the Philippines, I perceive that Australia's future is linked more with the Asia-Pacific region. Politically, economically and with regards to security, clearly Australia is now more and more a part of Asia. Its future is more and more linked to Asia and we appreciate Australia's view by initiating the concept of APEC. In terms of maintaining peace and stability of our region, clearly Australia has an important role to play so that countries in the region can ensure economic success for the greater prosperity of their peoples. It is in this respect that the Security Agreement between the two countries is significant.